Ft. Hood

I have been struggling to even read any of the news reports on this thing. Once the dust settled and most of the facts were figured out, I tried to avoid as much of this story as possible just because the entire situation made me feel sick. Someone who served in the military and even made his way to the rank of Major is still a threat to his own fellow soldiers. It's unbelievable.

Anyway, now that it's reached a certain level of political posturing, the story is unavoidable, so I may as well gauge your opinions on it.

Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan used two handguns to kill 13 people (12 soliders) and wound 42. I'm absolutely amazed that one man could cause that much damage that quickly. There was a jump at first to try to stay PC, the theories ran that it was post-traumatic stress disorder, then when it was revealed that he hadn't gone to combat yet, the fear of fighting. However, as more investigations were launched, details emerged that suggested that Hasan had turned to radical Islam. Combine that with his recent contacts with radical Islamic fundamentalist and him yelling "Allah is Great" during the shooting, there was no longer any doubt.

The more articles I read, the angrier I get that no one spoke up to stop him. Some of what he said could seem innocent at the time, other things seem like it could point to nothing but trouble. Some soldiers say they were concerned about what Hasan was saying, but didn't speak up for fear of being fingered for attacking a Muslim. This is where the politics start to come in. Besides the liberal media getting hammered for staying PC on Hasan until it was completely confirmed that his motives were related to his radical views, more Republicans are coming forward to say that political correctness may have been a factor in allowing this tragedy to happen.

This whole thing is just murky, with plenty of fingers getting thrown around. It will probably take another few weeks before every factoid is figured out.

By the way, I didn't know that soldiers weren't allowed to carry guns with them on base since 1993. I'm not sure why that legislation was passed, or what it hoped to accomplish, but god damn does it seem stupid now.

Talk away...

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Any lawyer representing this piece of shit should be strung up right next to him.

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That us why the ACLU exists.

	Ytoabn wrote:
	By the way, I didn't know that soldiers weren't allowed to carry guns with them on base since 1993. I'm not sure why that legislation was passed, or what it hoped to accomplish, but god damn does it seem stupid now.

Yeah, gun-free zones are only gun-free for the good guys. For evil men, it just means assurance that their victims can't fight back. Armed police didn't arrive for 10 minutes. I don't know how much ammo Hasan had, but that's more than enough time to fire hundreds of rounds. (See also, VA Tech, Columbine, etc.)

Also, the whole Muslim thing is a catch 22. If the Army had discharged him before the attack, they would've been labeled as anti-Muslim. The libs and Muslim groups would have raised hell, there would have been lawsuits, it would've been a mess. However, by doing nothing, they allowed him continued access to military intel and the opportunity to slaughter 13 soldiers.

At then end of the day, this guy is a terrorist and a traitor. When he opened fire that day, he wasn't just attacking people, he was attacking our country. He oughta be executed immediately, and I hope his 72 virgins all have syphilis.

Supposedly we had eyes on him and were monitoring him to see if anyone else was involved, and there was no way to predict that he would go nuts and shoot everyone. The military has known about his affiliations for a little while. They unfortunately did not swoop in on him fast enough.

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	PHB wrote:
	Supposedly we had eyes on him and were monitoring him to see if anyone else was involved, and there was no way to predict that he would go nuts and shoot everyone. The military has known about his affiliations for a little while. They unfortunately did not swoop in on him fast enough.

That's the murkiest part of this entire thing. Hindsight is 20/20, so the easy thing to say is that when you saw the signs, stop him immediately. Still, I can understand, that following him could have lead to bigger fish. And the concept of a Major in the Army going Jihad on his fellow soldiers still seems unbelievable. The investigations will be interesting to say the least.

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Exactly. If there's a major involved, who knows how deep it goes. I think the military made the right move to stay back, because this was pretty unforeseeable. Every action he committed that pointed to what he was going to do also pointed in other directions.

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The radical Islam thing is unfounded so far, try again later when there's more evidence.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8351740.stm wrote:

US officials said the content of the e-mail messages did not advocate or threaten violence, and was consistent with Maj Hasan's research for his job as an army psychiatrist, part of which involved post-traumatic stress disorder stemming from US combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The terrorism task force concluded that Maj Hasan was not involved in terrorist planning.

A senior Republican on the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee has called on all the US intelligence agencies to preserve the information they have on Maj Hasan.

Representative Pete Hoekstra said in a statement: "I believe members of the full committee on a bipartisan basis will want to scrutinise the intelligence relevant to this attack, what the agencies in possession of that intelligence did with it, who was and wasn't informed and why, and what steps America's intelligence agencies are taking in light of what they know."

Congressional investigation

FBI Director Robert Mueller has ordered a review of how the agency dealt with information about Maj Hasan.

Senior US Senator Joe Lieberman has said he plans to open a congressional investigation into whether the shootings were a terrorist attack.

Mr Lieberman also said he hoped to determine whether the army missed signs that Maj Hasan may have harboured extreme views.

Maj Hasan, who is recovering from gunshot wounds at a military hospital, will be charged in a military court over the Fort Hood shootings. He has declined to be interviewed by investigators.

He was transferred to Fort Hood in April and was to have been deployed in Afghanistan, with some reports indicating he was unhappy about this.

Bob Baer, a former CIA field officer who wrote the book See No Evil, told BBC News the attack did not "fit the signature of al-Qaeda or any other Islamic group".

"Not only there is no motive, there was no claim for the attack.

"We are missing so many parts of this. It does look like a man that was motivated by belief, but it looks like an individual act so far."

I'm inclined to think more Charles Whitman, less Mohammed Atta. People have snapped and shot the fuck out of their co-workers, long before radical Islam hit the scene.

Jericho, why exactly are we taking the word of "US Officials" that clearly contradicts reality? I read the e-mails, they've been released. It's scary shit. People that worked with him have been coming forward. He's a Muslim terrorist.

Those deaths are laid at the altar of Political Correctness. This is the sacrifice we ultimately have to make to risk the high sin of not offending anyone. If you don't think that's true, you watch and see what out protectors and betters in the government will do to ensure this doesn't happen again. (Hint: nothing, with a side portion of posturing)

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	MMS wrote:
	Those deaths are laid at the altar of Political Correctness. This is the sacrifice we ultimately have to make to risk the high sin of not offending anyone. If you don't think that's true, you watch and see what out protectors and betters in the government will do to ensure this doesn't happen again. (Hint: nothing, with a side portion of posturing)

What would you suggest changing MMS? I'm worried that encouraging soldiers to be suspicious of their fellow Muslim soldiers will lead to constant paranoia. The real question I'm looking for is how much of t his was due to Hasan being insane, and how much was influenced by his recently found radical views. Did he snap, then turn to radical Islam, then do it? If so, then it's clear the army needs to watch for signs of mental stress on and off the battlefield.

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Ytoabn wrote:

	MMS wrote:
	Those deaths are laid at the altar of Political Correctness. This is the sacrifice we ultimately have to make to risk the high sin of not offending anyone. If you don't think that's true, you watch and see what out protectors and betters in the government will do to ensure this doesn't happen again. (Hint: nothing, with a side portion of posturing)

What would you suggest changing MMS? I'm worried that encouraging soldiers to be suspicious of their fellow Muslim soldiers will lead to constant paranoia. The real question I'm looking for is how much of t his was due to Hasan being insane, and how much was influenced by his recently found radical views. Did he snap, then turn to radical Islam, then do it? If so, then it's clear the army needs to watch for signs of mental stress on and off the battlefield.

We can agree that promoting generic racism is bad. However, if anyone of any race is acting or speaking in a manner that gives the impression that they have extremist views that could lead to violence, they should not have to worry about politics and just report it and have their CO and above investigate.

This is going to affect our access to translators soon, I think.

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Ytoabn wrote:

	MMS wrote:
	Those deaths are laid at the altar of Political Correctness. This is the sacrifice we ultimately have to make to risk the high sin of not offending anyone. If you don't think that's true, you watch and see what out protectors and betters in the government will do to ensure this doesn't happen again. (Hint: nothing, with a side portion of posturing)

What would you suggest changing MMS? I'm worried that encouraging soldiers to be suspicious of their fellow Muslim soldiers will lead to constant paranoia. The real question I'm looking for is how much of t his was due to Hasan being insane, and how much was influenced by his recently found radical views. Did he snap, then turn to radical Islam, then do it? If so, then it's clear the army needs to watch for signs of mental stress on and off the battlefield.

Hasan never saw combat. Whether he was insane, or just a terrorist (which seems insane to us, so we like to excuse them rather than consider there might actually be monsters in the world), he was a problem. And here's the thing... y'know who causes these problems? Muslims. When was the last time a Jewish soldier shot up a military base, or a Wiccan rolled a grenade into a tent filled with fellow soldiers? They don't. Muslims do this. Can only blame the crazy so many times before you notice that the crazies happen to be the same religion. It's a problem and a pattern. It can be handled rightly, or handled wrongly, but ignoring it is definitely the latter.

And do you think making official policy to NOT report these sorts of things stops soldiers from suspecting? Really? No. All that policy does is make them have to put their career in jeopardy if they ever dare voice their concerns.

It's suicidal (or perhaps more accurately sacrificial) that in the aftermath of the Ft. Hood shooting that anyone could consider continuing such a policy. People died because political correctness took precedence over common sense. People died. This fucker shot and killed a pregnant woman (among others) while shouting Allahu Ackbar, and we're supposed to worry about being PC?

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While I certainly wouldn't want to go about isolationg and segregating a whole portion of the population, the point is salient. Note that the general media coverage immediately attempts to find any excuse for the atrocities that doesn't involv him being a terrorist that hates America. Emails can be inconclusive, but ones conversations reveal a lot.

MMS wrote:

Hasan never saw combat. Whether he was insane, or just a terrorist (which seems insane to us, so we like to excuse them rather than consider there might actually be monsters in the world), he was a problem. And here's the thing... y'know who causes these problems? Muslims. When was the last time a Jewish soldier shot up a military base, or a Wiccan rolled a grenade into a tent filled with fellow soldiers? They don't. Muslims do this. Can only blame the crazy so many times before you notice that the crazies happen to be the same religion. It's a problem and a pattern. It can be handled rightly, or handled wrongly, but ignoring it is definitely the latter.

Just a few months ago, a U.S. soldier in an Iraqi hospital killed 5 of his fellow soldiers. Call it post traumatic stress disorder, call it a guy who's just crazy. Either way, this sort of stuff does seem to happen with all kinds of soldiers.

Quote:

And do you think making official policy to NOT report these sorts of things stops soldiers from suspecting? Really? No. All that policy does is make them have to put their career in jeopardy if they ever dare voice their concerns.

It's suicidal (or perhaps more accurately sacrificial) that in the aftermath of the Ft. Hood shooting that anyone could consider continuing such a policy. People died because political correctness took precedence over common sense. People died. This fucker shot and killed a pregnant woman (among others) while shouting Allahu Ackbar, and we're supposed to worry about being PC?

But what DO you propose? Completely cancel any policy that would have disciplinary action for accusing your fellow soldier of being a traitor? Or do you want to go all the way and ban Muslims from service (since they are the only ones who do this sort of thing).

	Dylar wrote:
	While I certainly wouldn't want to go about isolationg and segregating a whole portion of the population, the point is salient. Note that the general media coverage immediately attempts to find any excuse for the atrocities that doesn't involv him being a terrorist that hates America. Emails can be inconclusive, but ones conversations reveal a lot.

But don't they do that for any situation? Anytime there's a killer they immediately look for an excuse. Heck, when the Virginia Tech Massacre happened they tried to blame video games before they even knew if the guy played video games. The media will always go for an excuse as soon as possible.

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