The Drug War

Wondering what you guys think about it in general.

Big waste of money.

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- a robot

It's not really a war when nukes aren't involved.

Last edited by Daikun on Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:23 am; edited 1 time in total

	PHB wrote:
	Big waste of money.

Agreed. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that all drugs should be legalized.

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They already are in the form of pills.

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"Anyone existing in this planet eagers to do something distinction"
- a robot

The "War on Drugs" is ineffective, poorly executed, undermanned and underfunded to achieve any real change. I like the idea of regulating and taxing certain drugs. I'm a social work major so I'm always going to be more interested in the treatment of substance abusers as opposed to their incarceration.

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	Sweet Garbonzo wrote:
	The "War on Drugs" is ineffective, poorly executed, undermanned and underfunded to achieve any real change. I like the idea of regulating and taxing certain drugs. I'm a social work major so I'm always going to be more interested in the treatment of substance abusers as opposed to their incarceration.

This. While I generally favor the prohibition of recreational drugs, the enforcement of that prohibition has gotten way out of hand. No country should ever be at war with its own citizens. The War on Drugs has led to the militarization of our police forces, an increase in the use and violence of SWAT teams, no-knock warrants, forfeiture laws that bypass due process, and a host of other un-Constitutional, un-American policies. Along with 9/11, it has been a driving force behind the increased police state "submit or be killed" mentality in America. So, yeah, prohibition is good, but we need to find a better way to enforce it - one that respects the rights of the innocent and treats criminals appropriately based on the level of their crime.

I'm sure most of you will hate on Glenn Beck, but I really like his stance on drugs and prohibition. He once said the he would favor legalizing all drugs, but only if we as Americans can walk down the street, see a crack addict begging on the sidewalk, and not give him any aid. I'm pretty Libertarian, so I tend to to support the regulation and taxation of drugs. However, with liberty comes responsibility. The problem is that Americans are too lazy and entitled to take responsibility for their own actions. They want the freedom to do meth, but when they get addicted, hospitalized, etc., they want the rest of us to bail them out. Not gonna happen. If you want me to provide you with some sort of welfare or other charity, then you must agree to give me some degree of authority over your actions so I can ensure that my investment in your life is not wasted.

On a related noted, I support the Fair Tax and repeal of the 16th Amendment. Among other things, the tax provides an effective way to collect "income" taxes from drug dealers, prostitutes, illegal immigrants, and many others.

We live in America. Surrendering freedom for aid is NOT a solution.

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- a robot

I cannot agree with you, TF. Drug addiction is way more than "I think I'll start doing meth because I'm bored, consequences be damned." Almost all addicts are using drugs to self medicate. They don't do drugs because they want to, they do drugs because they have serious mental health or physical health or emotional health issues. You have to treat the cause, not the symptom.

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	PHB wrote:
	We live in America. Surrendering freedom for aid is NOT a solution.

I agree in theory, but in reality, we do it all the time. Obamacare, TSA, and drug prohibition are just a few examples.

	Sweet Garbonzo wrote:
	I cannot agree with you, TF. Drug addiction is way more than "I think I'll start doing meth because I'm bored, consequences be damned." Almost all addicts are using drugs to self medicate. They don't do drugs because they want to, they do drugs because they have serious mental health or physical health or emotional health issues. You have to treat the cause, not the symptom.

I'm not sure where we disagree. I absolutely agree that the ideal solution is to reduce the incentive or desire for drugs, and treating the physical and emotional health issues is an important part of that. However, it's not enough. There will always be people who don't want help or can't be helped. Plus, there are those who do drugs just for fun or because it's cool - this has long been the case with cigarettes and alcohol and is growing in other areas such as marijuana. If Plan A is to treat people to prevent or cure drug use, we still need a Plan B. And that Plan B is either prohibition or personal responsibility.

I firmly believe the majority of Americans who abstain from drug use do so because they know it's bad for them, not because it's illegal. Which is to say, if we legalized everything, I very much doubt there would be a significant, or even slight, increase in the amount of drug users in America. It might even decrease if we cared to reinvest the costs of the War into outreach and treatment.

Considering the sheer amount of money we throw into it, I don't see what would be the problem in giving addicts aid when they want it. Like SG said, addiction goes beyond "today I'll stop, I just have to be responsible!" That's not how the real world works. Withdrawal is awful, and sometimes deadly. As with any addict, it's more than "I'm addicted to this." They usually have deeper psychological problems.

All in all, I wish the world that Libertarians lived in was true. Unforunately, it's not. People are people, and have been since the first person discovered how to get high. If it's a choice between my loved one getting better or my loved one toughing it out and (most likely) failing, I'm going to choose the outcome that's more likely in them getting better.

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	Quote:
	I firmly believe the majority of Americans who abstain from drug use do so because they know it's bad for them, not because it's illegal. Which is to say, if we legalized everything, I very much doubt there would be a significant, or even slight, increase in the amount of drug users in America. It might even decrease if we cared to reinvest the costs of the War into outreach and treatment.

This. I certainly wouldn't start.

I don't think drug addicts have any interest beyond doing more drugs. People who are legitimately trying to recover deserve the opportunity that being a citizen of a first world country entitles them.

It's easy to point at a group and say, "you're doing it wrong, do it different" but addiction doesn't work that way. I don't think legislating what little humanity remains in our government out is the solution to the problem, or any problem.

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"Anyone existing in this planet eagers to do something distinction"
- a robot