Dragon Age: Redemption

Felicia Day has a new web series out, based on the video game series Dragon Age. It's called Dragon Age: Redemption. I don't know what specifically I was expecting, I didn't have high hopes or anything but I figured it would be interesting. Here it is if you want to give it a watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-093SQo9NWM

Now if this were just some original fantasy series by Felicia Day, I'd be cool with it. It's low budget but still looks fairly good despite that.

The problem I have with this is that even in that short clip, it contradicts some things that have been explicitly stated in the lore for Dragon Age.

- Saarebas (the name for Qunari mages) are trained early to follow and not lead. When separated from their controllers (Arvaarad) they commit suicide because of the fear that they could be tainted by demons. A Saarebas taking control, leading men? Using his power indiscriminately? Flies in the face of literally every piece of lore we have about Qunari. There's also the fact that he seems to be missing his control collar and his mouth isn't magically sealed like other Saarebas, but I suppose we can assume the Chantry took those things away for some dumb reason.

- In this series she is clearly Qunari and not rebelling against it. She is given a title "athloc" (or something similar) meaning she is a butcher or cook or something. Then a Qunari comes in and tells her that they need her skills - established as her assassin skills earlier in the scene - to hunt down the escaped mage. Her title then changes to Talis. Ok. Only one problem with this scenario: Women do not have a place as fighters under the Qun. It makes no sense for them to use her in that capacity. Why the exception? Worse is that they never explain or address this change (not in the DLC, either) which suggests that either Felicia Day or David Gaider (head writer for the Dragon Age series) just forgot that part of the lore. Either that, or David Gaider was just so star struck to have Felicia Day acting in the series that he created, that he let her write the character however she wanted, regardless of how contradictory it was. Adding insult to injury, the DLC does have a line where you can act surprised that she's an elf, but also Qunari! How can this be! As if the audience hasn't been paying attention during the last two games, and doesn't already know that anyone can follow the Qun that wants to. "The Qunari aren't a race" the game tells you pedantically, "it's a philosophy."

(Side note: Regarding her 'title/name change from Athloc to Talis. Qunari only give these kinds of titles to other Qunari. If you are an outsider then you are "bas" or "basra", meaning: thing. Even rebel Qunari get the title Tal Vashoth. The fact that Athloc/Talis is given such titles, depending on her role, is how we know she's Qunari and not an outsider merc.)

This isn't even taking in to account that the acting was mostly pretty weak, or the fact that the Qunari really should have been wearing muscle suits or something to appear more like they do in the game.

I watched the episode first, then I bought and played the DLC (what can i say, I'm Bioware's bitch). The DLC was OK, but Talis just isn't that interesting a character. I might have enjoyed it more if I hadn't watched that episode first, though. That kind of ruined it for me. Actually, I KNOW I would have enjoyed it more if Talis didn't have to be there at all. I love having more party banter, and Varric's lines were as hilarious and awesome as always.

Anyway, that's all I wanted to say. I probably wouldn't have mentioned it at all, but PHB and I were having a twitter discussion about it, and it's hard to make all the points I wanted to make at 140 characters a time. So this post is just to relieve my feelings on the matter. I love Felicia Day usually, I just feel like she maybe never played the games before writing this series. The games are lengthy, and I can understand not being able to play them for the sake of research, but it seems like the series suffered for it.

He's pretty harsh, but this guy puts the problem rather succinctly: http://coelasquid.tumblr.com/post/11468625436/have-you-seen-the-first-episode-of-dragon-age
And also: http://coelasquid.tumblr.com/post/11469369773/peacockdawson-replied-to-your-post-have-you-seen

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You and I have watched the same nine minutes of a show and yet somehow you seem to know so much more about where it's going and who these characters are exactly than I do, which I amazing considering I know the lore as well as you do.

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"Anyone existing in this planet eagers to do something distinction"
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Where it's going? No idea. That what has been presented is contradictory to the lore? Definitely. I have no way of knowing how much of the lore you know.

I admit to being a bit puzzled about how much slack you're cutting Felicia Day, considering how awful and cringe-inducing that episode was. Normally it seems like you're extra-specially harsh towards media that fails to deliver or is fluffy/shallow/unresearched.

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Saarebas is a title. Which means what we know about THIS particular Qunari is basically nothing. We know he still has his tongue, and he isn't bound up. That implies that there's some sort of backstory to him that we don't know yet. We don't even know why the Qunari are looking for him. It's probably to kill him.

As far as Tallis' role, women are not allowed to be soldiers. There is no explanation as to whether they can serve as agents, infiltrators, assassins. We don't know any of that. What we know is that the Qun is broken up into three "pillars." The only pillar we know ANYTHING about is the one governed by the Arishok. That's who Sten served in DA, that's who we see in DA2. The Arishok himself says he has no say over the role of the other parts. We have no information for what exactly a Ben-Hassrath is, what kind of authority they have, and in what capacity they serve. We only know she's not part of the army. But people in the CIA are not in the army either. That doesn't mean they don't occasionally kill people. I don't get why everyone has decided that the lore has been shit on. This is territory the lore has NEVER explored.

As for the special effects, if you've seen Buffy, you learn to look past that. And every series deserves a chance to establish itself. 9 minutes is not enough to write off the entire project. If you've ever written anything you'll know that the beginning is the hardest part to make and get right.

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"Anyone existing in this planet eagers to do something distinction"
- a robot

Of course Saarebas is a title. It's a title that is roughly the equivalent of what Ferelden's call 'mage'. And everything that ANYONE has said about the Qunari and mages implies that the role they have is extremely strict. They are the most locked down role in the whole society, and anyone who has ever had congress with the Qunari talks about how they are treated: on leashes, under complete control, etc. And every Qunari that we have seen in the game - including Tal Vashoth, which you can't really say is under the jurisdiction of the Arishok because they're rebels - they ALL treat Qunari like armed, unexploded ordinance. If that character had been an elf mage they were calling Saarebas, then OK, I would say that his attitude is plausible, because elves have a different racial perspective on magic. But this Saarebas was raised in a society where all mages are put in lockdown, and all Qunari look with pity and fear towards mages - the societal pressure is going to cause you to act a certain way towards those skills, even if you're freed from the restraints.

Sten, when he talks about female warriors, doesn't say 'soldiers' specifically. And it wouldn't make much sense if he did, seeing as the Warden isn't a soldier. Why would Sten be so confused about the Warden's gender, if there were other such fighting females in his society? The fact that he's completely baffled as to how a person could be both female and a warrior tells me that he has never seen such a thing before in his entire life. If there were some role for female assassins, why wouldn't Sten have merely assumed that the female rogue Warden was merely Talis, and said nothing about the matter?

As far as the Ben-Hassrath goes, we do have that one codex entry. And it implies they are the re-education corps of the Qunari. Indoctrinators. They are both male and female, but there's nothing to suggest they go out to fight anyone. And from that codex, wouldn't you at least expect that those with a true and firm belief in the Qun would be chosen for that role? Not someone constantly in doubt of it like Felicia Day's Talis?

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Even the fact that she switches roles is against what we've learned from Sten about the Qunari, which is that you can't choose your role, you're born into it. That choosing a different role for yourself is like trying to select a different gender. Remember Sten's long discussion about how no one has a place in Ferelden, and how disconcerting he finds it? That if a farmer becomes a shopkeeper, he'll never be a shopkeeper, he'll always be a farmer who owns a shop? Part of the certainty of the Qun is certainty that everyone has their place and should stay there. It's not a philosophy I like by any means. But it's been pretty firmly established up until now. And nothing in this episode reflects what we've learned about the Qunari so far.

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"I know we're in a lot of trouble and probably about to die. But that: was worth it."

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	Fata Morgana wrote:
	Adding insult to injury, the DLC does have a line where you can act surprised that she's an elf, but also Qunari! How can this be! As if the audience hasn't been paying attention during the last two games, and doesn't already know that anyone can follow the Qun that wants to. "The Qunari aren't a race" the game tells you pedantically, "it's a philosophy."

This reminds me of how idiotically Shepard can act in Mass Effect. Dr. Solus, a member of a race defined almost exclusively by their scientific genius and short life-span, mentions his 16-year-old nephew's achievements, and Shepard can respond with, "Oh, is he some kind of prodigy?"

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Erunanton wrote:

	Fata Morgana wrote:
	Adding insult to injury, the DLC does have a line where you can act surprised that she's an elf, but also Qunari! How can this be! As if the audience hasn't been paying attention during the last two games, and doesn't already know that anyone can follow the Qun that wants to. "The Qunari aren't a race" the game tells you pedantically, "it's a philosophy."

This reminds me of how idiotically Shepard can act in Mass Effect. Dr. Solus, a member of a race defined almost exclusively by their scientific genius and short life-span, mentions his 16-year-old nephew's achievements, and Shepard can respond with, "Oh, is he some kind of prodigy?"

ME2 is kind of funny with those. There are a couple of times where you can ask Tali, "Why do you hate Cerberus so much?", and for most of my runs I never asked that question because I figured she hated them for the same reason that I do. I finally asked that seemingly dumb question in a later run, and got some backstory for it. But I do wish the question had been phrased in a way that doesn't make Shepard sound like an idiot.

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Quote:

Of course Saarebas is a title. It's a title that is roughly the equivalent of what Ferelden's call 'mage'. And everything that ANYONE has said about the Qunari and mages implies that the role they have is extremely strict. They are the most locked down role in the whole society, and anyone who has ever had congress with the Qunari talks about how they are treated: on leashes, under complete control, etc. And every Qunari that we have seen in the game - including Tal Vashoth, which you can't really say is under the jurisdiction of the Arishok because they're rebels - they ALL treat Qunari like armed, unexploded ordinance. If that character had been an elf mage they were calling Saarebas, then OK, I would say that his attitude is plausible, because elves have a different racial perspective on magic. But this Saarebas was raised in a society where all mages are put in lockdown, and all Qunari look with pity and fear towards mages - the societal pressure is going to cause you to act a certain way towards those skills, even if you're freed from the restraints.

Again, you seem to have seen so much more of this series than me, that you saw this character who has only been on screen for fifteen seconds' upbringing. It's like you automatically know that he wasn't raised outside of the Qun, and possibly people use the title because that's just what they call Qunari mages. I'd like to see the copy that you watched, that you know everything about these characters already.

Quote:

Sten, when he talks about female warriors, doesn't say 'soldiers' specifically. And it wouldn't make much sense if he did, seeing as the Warden isn't a soldier. Why would Sten be so confused about the Warden's gender, if there were other such fighting females in his society? The fact that he's completely baffled as to how a person could be both female and a warrior tells me that he has never seen such a thing before in his entire life. If there were some role for female assassins, why wouldn't Sten have merely assumed that the female rogue Warden was merely Talis, and said nothing about the matter?

His entire life is governed by the Arishok. Who's to say how much he knows about how the Ariqun behaves? Wouldn't that lend MORE credence to the assassin theory? I've known a couple of soldiers in my time, and none of them have ever met or personally heard of a government agent who assassinates people as part of his job. So I guess they don't exist, right?

Quote:

As far as the Ben-Hassrath goes, we do have that one codex entry. And it implies they are the re-education corps of the Qunari. Indoctrinators. They are both male and female, but there's nothing to suggest they go out to fight anyone. And from that codex, wouldn't you at least expect that those with a true and firm belief in the Qun would be chosen for that role? Not someone constantly in doubt of it like Felicia Day's Talis?

There's nothing to suggest they don't. If you don't like Felicia Day making assumptions about the lore, why are you making so many? Like for example, assuming she's constantly in doubt. I played through the entire DLC, and she spent the entire second half trying to sell me on Qunari ideals. So I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Like, on any level here.

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"Anyone existing in this planet eagers to do something distinction"
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Here's someone who went in to more detail on each of the points that this video failed at:
http://smaragdinapics.tumblr.com/post/11342901043/nerd-rage-is-in-the-qun
And a follow-up after seeing the DLC:
http://smaragdinapics.tumblr.com/post/11364773765/spoilers-nerd-rage-is-in-the-qun-part-2-now-with

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"I know we're in a lot of trouble and probably about to die. But that: was worth it."

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There's no point in reading that. Name one show that you can say, "I know everything that's going to happen on this show from the first episode" that isn't called CSI: Miami. There are no valid points there. If the entire series shows no resolution to these things, then it will be a problem. But you're beyond jumping the gun and frankly it's kind of annoying. If you're really a fan of something, you don't shit on it in the first eight minutes, you actually give it a chance to acquit itself.

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"Anyone existing in this planet eagers to do something distinction"
- a robot

Well, you're asking how I "know" things are wrong when I watch this episode, and those links sort of go into detail as to how someone who knows the lore would find that episode really, really wrong.

Like the thing with Saarebas. You say "How do I know" that this Saarebas was part of the Qun, maybe he was raised outside of it? But if that was the case, then the Qunari who sent Talis after it would have called it "bas saarebas", as it's an outsider. So maybe the Qunari who ordered Talis after him isn't a Qunari at all? He certainly doesn't act like one. But if he's Tal Vashoth, then why is Talis reciting the Qun as if she's trying to make herself believe it?

I'm not "making stuff up" or assuming anything. I'm going just by what's in the video. Andraste is not a God, for example. That's just one of the smaller inaccuracies. This is like a fan film from someone who doesn't really know much about the series, it seems to me. It's fairly straight forward.

I mean it's cool, PHB. You like this kind of thing. I never knew there was any popcorn-fluff media that you would go for. It's good to know you're just as weak for a pretty face as anyone else. Just don't try to justify it as being better than it is. Just because you like it doesn't mean that it automatically has to be well-written and researched.

To quote a wise man:

	PHB wrote:
	It was stupid. It's okay if you enjoyed it, but that doesn't change the fact that it was stupid, and you turned your brain off to justify and enjoy its stupidity.

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This isn't fluff I enjoyed. To be honest, I wasn't super impressed with it. It's obvious they didn't get much money to make it. But you have no idea what's inaccurate and what hasn't been explained. I only bury things that have dug themselves a grave first. At least wait until they pick up a shovel.

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"Anyone existing in this planet eagers to do something distinction"
- a robot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX1Sjrpj9m4
Gee, a lot happens in this episode that is exactly what I said two weeks ago.

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"Anyone existing in this planet eagers to do something distinction"
- a robot

Not sure why I'd continue watching episodes when the first episode + DLC failed to engage me in the slightest.

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